AB PLC5/20 & PLC5/30 communication to a PC

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reza662
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:24 pm

AB PLC5/20 & PLC5/30 communication to a PC

Post by reza662 » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:22 am

Hi Every body
we have a G2 Press line that control with 5 PLC5/30 as a local controller of each press machine and a PLC5/20 as a central controller that control the Press line. these plcs are connected to each other with DH+ protocol. now we want to get production data from the PLC5/20 controller and show these information on a monitor. can someone give me some information about this work? i mean who can i connect this PLC5/20 to a PC with windows XP SP3 and how can i store these information in a database and use them for showing on a LCD monitor in the top of press line?
thanks

Ryzhij
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Location: Ryazan, Russia

Re: AB PLC5/20 & PLC5/30 communication to a PC

Post by Ryzhij » Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:53 am

Hi! To meet these challenges, you will need software RSLogix5, RSLinx Clasic and programming package HMIs and SCADA, that you choose.
You can connect a local operator panel via RS-232, SCADA connected via an adapter USB <=> DH +.
Also, for the connection of SCADA c controllers you can use converters RS232 <=> Ethernet.

Note that controllers PLC5 and DH + network obsolete now.
Maybe it makes sense to upgrade the entire system, using ControlLogix or CompactLogix?

neuhauser
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:18 pm

Re: AB PLC5/20 & PLC5/30 communication to a PC

Post by neuhauser » Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:27 pm

If you can find a ktx pc card or one of the others (sst) made for allen-bradley (these have DH+) you can use a opc server and pull data into a database or excel. RSLinx OEM or above has opc/dde - lite isn't enabled. There are still some panelviews and dataliners around with dh+ - look around on e-bay and you'll probably find some new ones.

Ryzhij is correct about upgrading. The 5/30's have already gone silver and next year the 5/20's will be dropped. After 2013 only the 5/80's will be supported.

If upgrading isn't possible you could get a 1756-dhrio, 1756-enbt, rack, and power supply and set up a dh+ - ethernet i/p gateway. Use a small compactlogix -L32, 35, 23 E or and use it as a ethernet data hub. If any of the 5's are ethernet you could even use a micro 1400. Keep in mind, some of the older firmware rev 5's don't work well with the compacts and micro's. You'll have to use a controllogix if this is the case.

I'm stuck with a 5/80 system- 9 5/80's, 12 5/20's, compacts, and micros. I use a similar (L23E) arrangement to control and pull data from a 3000hp powerflex 7000 across ethernet.

reza662
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:24 pm

Re: AB PLC5/20 & PLC5/30 communication to a PC

Post by reza662 » Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:36 pm

Ryzhij wrote:Hi! To meet these challenges, you will need software RSLogix5, RSLinx Clasic and programming package HMIs and SCADA, that you choose.
You can connect a local operator panel via RS-232, SCADA connected via an adapter USB <=> DH +.
Also, for the connection of SCADA c controllers you can use converters RS232 <=> Ethernet.

Note that controllers PLC5 and DH + network obsolete now.
Maybe it makes sense to upgrade the entire system, using ControlLogix or CompactLogix?
thanks my friend but there is not the possibility for promotion at this moment for us and we have to use this system and actually i want a order number from you! i mean the order number of the device that is needed for connecting PLC5/20 or PLC5/30 to a PC! i found a few with different protocols like DH+ and ethernet but i'm not sure which one is better for my job!
can you help me to select?!

reza662
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:24 pm

Re: AB PLC5/20 & PLC5/30 communication to a PC

Post by reza662 » Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:39 pm

neuhauser wrote:If you can find a ktx pc card or one of the others (sst) made for allen-bradley (these have DH+) you can use a opc server and pull data into a database or excel. RSLinx OEM or above has opc/dde - lite isn't enabled. There are still some panelviews and dataliners around with dh+ - look around on e-bay and you'll probably find some new ones.

Ryzhij is correct about upgrading. The 5/30's have already gone silver and next year the 5/20's will be dropped. After 2013 only the 5/80's will be supported.

If upgrading isn't possible you could get a 1756-dhrio, 1756-enbt, rack, and power supply and set up a dh+ - ethernet i/p gateway. Use a small compactlogix -L32, 35, 23 E or and use it as a ethernet data hub. If any of the 5's are ethernet you could even use a micro 1400. Keep in mind, some of the older firmware rev 5's don't work well with the compacts and micro's. You'll have to use a controllogix if this is the case.

I'm stuck with a 5/80 system- 9 5/80's, 12 5/20's, compacts, and micros. I use a similar (L23E) arrangement to control and pull data from a 3000hp powerflex 7000 across ethernet.
thanks dear friend but a question! if i want to use from serial port on PLC for connection to PC (DF1) don't you think it is really slow? and maybe it will be useless! you know for a upload, it needs about 5-10min!

neuhauser
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:18 pm

Re: AB PLC5/20 & PLC5/30 communication to a PC

Post by neuhauser » Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:12 am

what kind of and how much data are you trying to poll? What speed is your DH+?

If one of your plc5's isn't overloaded the simplest thing might be to install a 1785-ENET side car. I use these on my 5/80b's with my DH+ as a backup network in case a ethernet message times out. The last firmware rev model C has 100 meg ethernet with a port built into the card. (the older ones are only 10 meg and have to have a AIU adapter.) You'll need to be able to move some i/o cards around- it takes a slot beside the processor.

If a dedicated PC is the way you want to go you'll need a 1784-PKTX card. This has a DH+ port that also can do rio if you want to set up a pc softlogix 5 controller and has a DH485 port also. It will do 56, 115, and 230K

If you want to have hardware that you can use after upgrading you could go with a controllogix bridge. A 1756-enbt, a 1756-dhrio, rack, and ps. This is the most expensive setup but you can access the plc's from ethernet using rslinx and any of the other ab ethernet plc's with multihop messaging can access data across the gateway. The PLC5's on the DH+ can even message to processors on the ethernet - must be at least REV-E Firmware G to be able to multihop message. If the dhrio is set up for 230k the second DH+ / RIO port is disabled.

Kepware and most of the other opc/dde servers can access the pktx and multihop across a gateway.

I've setup all of above and have had very good results. There are a lot of 3rd party gateways but are ether a pain to setup, don't work, or vastly overpriced (ProSoft)

neuhauser
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:18 pm

Re: AB PLC5/20 & PLC5/30 communication to a PC

Post by neuhauser » Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:43 am

Sorry - didn't see your last post.
You can use the serial - but I'm afraid your going to be disappointed unless you're only pulling a few words every now and then. If you do go into the processor config and increase the comm time-slice to around 20 - 40ms to help. Be careful because what ever you add also adds to the scan-time.

reza662
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:24 pm

Re: AB PLC5/20 & PLC5/30 communication to a PC

Post by reza662 » Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:48 am

Thanks a lot my friend, it was really useful
you know as i said before we haven't possibility to promote our control system at the moment and our company wants to promote this control system to Siemens S7 PLCs maybe next year, so are looking for a cheap way!
as you told, i think using DH+ or Ethernet protocol might be better choice and for these Options, there are a few modules like: 1785-ENET , 1784-PKTX and 1784-U2DHP.
do you have any idea about 1784-U2DHP ? i mean can i use this module for connection (using PLC5/20 DH+ port for connecting to PC via USB port)?
or do you recommend 1785-ENET for this task,( putting 1785-ENET module on PLC5/20 rack and make a connection between PLC and PC via ethernet protocol)?
or last choice and using 1784-PKTX ( putting 1784-PKTX card in PC and make a connection to PLC5/20 via DH+ protocol)?
anyway,is there any better choice without need to upgrading system or setting up a new controller ?!
maybe it be useful to say , our press line is second hand and we bought that 2 year ago. the monitoring system that we want was working there before and when we bought that we didn't buy the monitoring system( PC, LCD monitor and so on) but there weren't any 1785-ENET module on none of racks, i guess they used 1784-PKTX on PC but i'm sure exactly!
thanks again (tyou)

reza662
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:24 pm

Re: AB PLC5/20 & PLC5/30 communication to a PC

Post by reza662 » Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:07 am

there are two pics from old monitoring system that you can see below:

Image

Image

neuhauser
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:18 pm

Re: AB PLC5/20 & PLC5/30 communication to a PC

Post by neuhauser » Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:16 pm

The enet sidecar will be the easy and best way in my opinion. As I said you'll need the slot beside the processor - the card bolts on to the PLC. There isn't any hardware to set up- the ethernet port will show up as port 3 in the processor. The IP settings are set up in rslogix. Once installed you can message across ethernet. If the enet card is a series B rev B or greater there is a built in webpage for viewing data in the PLC. Also there is email - kind of clunky to set up but it works. All you will need to do is point your opc server to the ip.
The usb adapter is expensive. as well as a pcmk (laptop card adapter) It will work but you could pick up a used enet side card a good deal cheaper.
Be sure to get at least a series B or C card. The A has issues with newer hardware on the network. Also if you do get a B you'll need a transciver also. Converts the 15 pin enet port on the card to a standard ethernet jack. The latest C series has the jack built in and is 100 mhz.

There is most likely quite a few posted on ebay now. Expect to pay around $600 - $1200 US for a used B. A new C will cost around $3800 - $4000 US.
Too bad you're not close by- I just pulled a bunch of A's and B's.

reza662
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:24 pm

Re: AB PLC5/20 & PLC5/30 communication to a PC

Post by reza662 » Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:10 pm

thanks my friend, i decide to use 1785-ENET C series for connecting and there is a empty slot on PLC5/20 Rack next to the PLC. for the last question can you tell me, is there any necessary interface or device for connecting PLC5/20 And PC or i can connect them easily with a Ethernet cable?
by the way, can you demonstrate a little about the databases supported by RS logix or LS links? can i store my desired information in a SQL DB?
:roll:

neuhauser
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:18 pm

Re: AB PLC5/20 & PLC5/30 communication to a PC

Post by neuhauser » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:26 pm

Sorry about the late reply. Haven't been on the site.
As far as the C all you need is a standard ethernet cable to your switch (or a crossover if it's a direct connection to the pc).
I'm going to act like you've never done this before so please excuse the long text below.

For pulling data if you're going to use RSLinx you'll need the OEM, Pro, or Gateway version. Lite dosn't allow DDE-OPC. It's only the activation not the actual software.
Any of the microsoft office - excel, word, access will inport from Linx. You can write vb script in excel-access or a vb program to pull data. (VB6 -.net is alittle tricky).
If you are going to pull just a few words there is a feature in Linx to copy a data link then you can do a "paste special" in excel and the link is automaticaly set up. Any other software that can use "Ole" will work also.

1st you need to set up your driver in linx. For the c it will be a ethernet driver. The c is ethernet I/P so you can use that one if you want. If you run into problems - could be caused by earler PLC firmware, set up the standard ethernet driver and enter the plc ip address. After it's set up go to rswho and make sure that the plc shows up on the network under your driver.
Go to the DDE/OPC setting- Topic Config. Most likely a topic for the processor will already show up - linx adds them on rswho. If not goto New at the bottom- give it a name- open your driver to the right- select your plc and hit apply. Your topic is set up. Open the Data collection tab and set the polled time. If you want to be able to use offline links when you copy opc links, put the plc file and path in the box beside use symbols and select.
This will be the DDE/OPC topic for your data collection.

To copy links to excel without any coding - in rslinx goto Edit, Copy DDE/OPC Link. Click the + beside the RSLinx server, select your plc, select offline if you setup a project file in the "Use Symbols" of the topic - if not select online. Give it a second to update- go to the file and word you want. The OPC server, topic, and link will be placed in the box below. If you want to pull a block of data put the number of words in the "Block Size" box. Hit OK. Open excel (or access), right click on a cell and select "Paste Special". To the right select "Paste Link". Hit OK and the data will be linked.

To write DDE code in excel or vb open the rslinx help. If you look under "How to ..." there is a topic "Collect data". Here there is most of the info and examples you'll need.

Feel free to ask any other questions if you want. If you need any examples I can send some screen shots or code.

reza662
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:24 pm

Re: AB PLC5/20 & PLC5/30 communication to a PC

Post by reza662 » Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:57 am

(gpost)
Wow! (clap) Thank you so much , (tyou) you explanation was perfect and i guess i got it! I'll try it today with DF1 and i'll switch to Ethernet after buying 1785-enet. if i hit any problems, i will inform you! :wink:

by the way, I install RSview32 and i guess it can be more easily to use this software for monitoring, i mean i can define tags and use them in RSview so there is not need to programming in visual basic and so on. or even i can use wincc for monitoring because it supports AB PLCs. i try these ways and i hope to be success! (suc)

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